On my way home last night, I bumped into two gentlemen standing outside a Church handing out leaflets and inviting people in for coffee. I got talking to them on the topic of the Trinity which I struggle to get my head around. And, despite the lengthy discussion, I still cannot get my head around it. So: God is composed of three elements – the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost – just like water is composed of three elements – two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom. And: God changes form – sometimes the Father, sometimes the Son and sometimes the Holy Ghost – just like water changes form – sometimes liquid, sometimes solid and sometimes gas.
I cannot understand how people who are otherwise brilliant, smart and intellectual feed on this. I mean: if water changes to liquid, solid or gas, it's still always wholly water, just in a different form (i.e. liquid, solid or gas). Likewise, if God were to change form to be the Father, the Son or the Holy Ghost, God is still God, just in a different form. However, if God is wholly the Father, wholly the Son or wholly the Holy Ghost, then God cannot simultaneously be a fractional composition of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. This is like saying one hydrogen or oxygen atom is water. It's not the case. The simile doesn't work.
Lastly, there's the question which I can never find a convincing response to: if Jesus is God or a fraction of God even, is it not a bit strange that Jesus (when on this earth) was supplicating and praying to God? And by "convincing response" I mean consistent with sense and reason. Because: whilst we find that revelation from God is oftentimes outside the realm of sense and reason (e.g. being taught that we have a soul or how to make ablution for prayer), it is never inconsistent with sense and reason. Well, at least I haven't been able to find an example of revelation which is inconsistent with sense and reason. I am happy to retract this belief of mine if there is a counter-example. It is not central to my argument about the Trinity being a mathematical absurdity. It's just a side point.
5 comments:
Thanks for the comment Haji. Appreciate it :)
Wiping over the top of the sock rather than the bottom: this we discussed on Facebook and I think we kind of agreed that it's a spiritual gesture rather than a physical cleansing so outside the realm of logic rather than being contradictory to logic.
The Trinity simile: see if the theory was that "God transitions between the three states (Father, Son, Holy Ghost)" or that "God is composed of the three elements (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)" then, though a bit strange, could kind of be plausible. However, the theory when you prod and question it is a mixture (a confusion rather) of the two. And when we compose it mathematically as follows...
(1) God = Father = Son = Holy Ghost
(2) God = Father + Son + Holy Ghost
... we find it's a simultaneous equation that is, well, logically absurd. Make sense? You say you have a better simile/analogy for understanding the Trinity theory?
Nah, I can't get to the killing and resurrection whilst I have a more fundamental logical inconsistency blinking at me! I see what you're trying to do with the 'roles' and 'functions' argument but that's not the theory. A role or a function is something like "the forgiver" or "the creator". The theory on the other hand is God (the Father?) being outside the realm of space/time, the Son coming into the realm of space/time for a brief spell and the Holy Spirit being with and always around us, i.e. the Father, the Son and Holy Ghost are states of being (to do with space and time) rather than roles/functions. Will doubly check that this is the theory next time I speak to an advocate of the theory iA... but I'm not quite sure any two people have the same understanding of it!!
The trinity analogy with God and H2O means there is one God that appears at least to use in several forms. Its not like three elements, such as two Hydrogens and two Oxygens.
In this case, let's say:
Father is ICE
Son is WATER
Holy spirit is GAS
But they are all H2O.
Even physicists believe in a "God Particle":) Usually.
Hi Jennifer, I did a rubbish job of expressing myself but what I meant was that you can't have...
Father = Son = Holy Spirit = God
... and...
Father + Son + Holy Spirit = God
... simultaneously.
It's one or the other or none.
I don’t think OUR logic/reason can put God in our own box. Look at Genesis.. I won’t get all into it… but first, God creates matter/time/space. “ Let there be light”-God creates the entire electromagnetic spectrum… see.. People ask what God did before creation, but there was no “time” in eternity before God created all the physics we see today.. Also, to provide thought to your question… I wonder this but don’t know how to back it… we are made in the image of God… how do we express ourself? Or, How would you communicate love to someone? You can touch them ( body), you can say it (word), or just looking at them, they can perceive how you feel about them ( spirit)… So, are Son & Spirit expressions of God, that since being of God, they are their own person yet part of God the Father?
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